if you honestly think

…that the government running the health care system in this country is such a hot damn idea, then for the love of everything good and holy,

read this link.

Yeah, I know it's a right-leaning opinion site. The article it's quoting isn't. Read the commentary following it. And then try -- just honestly try -- to convince me that it's still such a great idea.

I dare you.

Comments

[Karen]

They're lucky their baby has somewhere to go for treatment. Sadly we won't have that option if we end up with their type of heath care system.

[saintseester]

I honestly can't believe that anyone who has had to wait on line for any sort of gov't action be it getting a driver's license or clearing up a tax mistake, could ever think that gov't being involved in anything as massive as health care is a good idea.

[Emily]

The big problem I see with the article on hot air is that he's only considering emergency care in his argument. Folks here don't get preventative care regardless of their ability to pay (with the exception of birth control and probably some clinics and such, but they're in the minority), nor would they receive expensive treatments for things like cancer for free. For me, that's a huge weakness - and one of my biggest fears. It's what bankrupts lots of middle income folks.

So I'm not going to say I want Canada's health care system, but I sure would like some sort of safety net - some right to health care (because I do believe it should be a right, not a privilege) - that won't cause me to lose my house, my credit score, etc if there should be some extreme circumstance in my life. In anyone's life.

[Kelly]

Perhaps he's only considering emergency care. However, that's what grabs most people and squeezes the lifeblood out of them -- the accident, the out-of-nowhere diagnosis, the allergy attack that leads to hospitalization, the heart attack, the preemie birth that bills you six months in NICU.

Folks here don't get preventive care regardless of ability to pay because it's a voluntary thing. I don't run to the doctor every time I get the sniffles. Neither did most people up until the late 80s and early 90s, when the concept of the HMO and the "benefits" of preventive care were sold hook, line and sinker to a willing public. A public who was more than willing to pay for this sort of coverage. Flat fee and a wee copay and boing! you were covered! Buy one of these policies as opposed to the major medical, emergency coverage that was the previous norm and you don't have to worry. Perhaps.

It was a good racket. And it seemed like a good thing for a company to offer as a benefit. Until …

The down side is that you didn't see the end cost of your health care any more. You didn't see how much that testing or appointment really was. Your doctors could order any test they wanted and your insurance would cover it. No one saw what this was costing the insurance companies in paying back the providers. Especially when people were now running in droves for care. Sniffle? Go to the doctor. A wee pain? Go to the doctor. Need someone to talk to? Go to the doctor. Turns out there's nothing serious, but bill the insurance anyway….

It's why insurance is astronomically expensive. It's why health services are astronomically expensive. The system is broken, yes, but it did it to itself. When it took price comparison for services rendered out of the equation, it made it impossible for the system to support itself.

"Oh, but if I look at the price of the XXXXXX, I might not be able to have it done."

Yes, and you might not need it at all. Preventive care via the health management organization concept is a myth, and an expensive one. It's a lesson the industry has taught itself, to its peril. Dangle the "free" carrot in front of the donkey and he'll pull you anywhere he can. Take the carrot away and make the donkey work for it, and he'll think twice about it.

You do NOT receive "expensive treatments for things like cancer for free" in a nationalized health care system. This is ALSO a big myth, and the biggest one sold to the people as a whole. Your income taxes will likely rise to as much as 50% on the dollar in order to pay for these services. Also, with everyone and his brother using the system (because after all, it's "free," just as the HMOs made you think), care is not going to be readily available. It will, by necessity, be rationed. IF you are lucky enough to get on the list, it's not going to be a prompt fix. You will have to wait months for your turn in a chemo lounge, or for a spot on the radiation table. You will get the bare minimum in care because that's all the system will be able to afford you, and the people treating you will not be motivated to give you anything but the bare minimum as their reward for their specialized knowledge and skills is fixed and unchanging.

Health care is NOT a right. It is a PRIVILEGE. Life is a right. Liberty is a right. The ability to use your own mind is a right. Everything else is a privilege, and with privileges come responsibilities. It is the responsibility of the individual to provide for their own. If you are worried about what may strike you and yours health-wise, then it is your responsibility -- not your employer's; not your neighbors; certainly not your congressman's -- to make sure you have your own safety net in place. It IS possible. Is it going to cost you? Yes. But the monthly outlay is a small price to pay if you have genuine concerns about the future and your ability to pay for it.

I am paying a great deal of money every month to cover myself. My husband is paying a great deal of money every month to cover himself and HSH. We are going without other things to make sure that this is done. Why? Because our family histories worry us and we are both at an age that things are only going to go downhill. It is not anyone else's problem. The guy across the street shouldn't have to pay for my bum knee, my daughter's potential appendicitis, or my husband's potential cancer.

By saying that the government should have to provide some safety net, you are saying exactly that -- that I should knock on all the doors on my street and take up a collection for the next time I get a sinus infection.

"No, I'm not."

Yes, you are.

"You don't care."

I do. Very much. I want people who need care to continue to get it. If you go to the emergency room with abdominal pain, they will treat you before they demand an insurance card or a down payment. They will do everything possible to save your life. They will work with you afterward to pay for the treatment -- the fees that they as specially-trained medical professionals and the facility providing the medicines and treatment bays are entitled to. Nothing in life is free. Human life has no price tag, right?

Well, nationalize the health care system and suddenly you have the stock boy parading down aisle 6 with that price tag gun in his hand. You will sit there until they can get to you. And then, you will only be entitled to what they choose to give you, based on that price tag sticker on your head. 14-week too early preemie? Oops. Sorry. NICU's full. You'll have to wait. 80-year old with a tumor? Well, you've already more than filled your life expectancy. We'll have to call that incurable. You don't qualify.

Want proof? Take a look inside the VA system sometime. Ask an active-duty service member about getting things done inside their health-care system. I can supply you with names if you'd like me to.

There is no "safety net" built into life. There is no easy way around. Our system is not perfect as it is -- there is no question about it. The answer is NOT to place it in the care of a nameless, faceless entity who will only see you as another eartag number among the rest of the herd.

Sorry, Em.

[Emily]

All right, I've got some free time now.

First, I do think we agree very much on the fact that the system is broken and why it is broken, i.e. we don't see what things cost, doctors are choosing to do more expensive and sometimes unnecessary things and insurance will pay etc. And I did say that I don't want Canada's health care system - I have second hand experience there - a friend of ours in college was Canadian and chose to pay extra to have a kidney transplant here because they could schedule the surgery significantly sooner than she could have in Canada.

As for preventative care, well, I don't mean just the sniffles. I mean the pap smear, mammogram (which reminds me, I need to get one of those bastards scheduled), prostate exams and such that catch the bad things early. The prenatal exams, the things that prevent more expensive problems from forming.

I suppose I just have a significant issue in saying that something as basic as health care should belong only to the rich. Which, if health care costs keep rising by 9% every year while wages don't, is how it's going to be. Yes, there is personal responsibility, but what happens if nothing happens to change health care? There's only so much we can give up to be able to afford health care for our families.

I fully admit I've never been in a serious health situation without insurance. I don't know if the doctor's office would have required me to pay for the visit in full before even seeing the doctor who found my gall stones. Would the hospital have given me an installment plan option to pay for the surgery? That is one form of safety net that I mean. It doesn't have to be government, either federal or state, provided.

Now my brain is starting to shut down. Random snippets may follow.

Just as I think health care should be available to all, I don't think any plan should be mandatory. If you're foolish enough to opt out, then you're on your own.

I seriously doubt any plan put forth by the government will work if there's any form of government subsidy. Also, I'm worried about a hierarchy of care if they do form some public health care system and gov't having a hand in making health care decisions for people.

I worry if everyone has to buy their health care on the open market that some folks won't be able to get it, due to past or current conditions.

Are there cheap health insurance plans available now? I don't know the answer. But for those people who make too much for Medicaid but can't afford BCBS, some sort of plan?

I think I'm done thinking for the night. I do appreciate the brain exercise, though.

[Maggie]

I am still unsure exactly what to do about healthcare, all I know is that something desperately needs to be done. I find it horribly unfair that I recieved the best hospital care just because my father has a well-paying job and can afford good insurance, while my best friend and surrogate sister, who has a bad and rare heart condition and must visit the ER AT LEAST once a month, cannot afford the doctors who can help heal her.

I'm not sure which way I lean, government-organized or not, but this needs fixing.